#79: Repairing the Parent-Adult Child Relationship: Small Changes Make the Biggest Differences

This is a much needed episode and I'm excited to share it with you along with my guest Andie Toderovitz, a Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying) who specializes in relationship issues, attachment styles, and emotional well-being. Andie helps individuals of all ages develop greater self-awareness and build deeper, more meaningful connections. 

Although most parents with struggling young adults tend to focus on fixing their adult child - the unemployment, the lack of motivation, the disconnection from life, there's a deeper truth that often explains why they have stalled. 

It's the parent and adult child dynamic and until that relationship is healed, nothing changes. 

Which is why this episode is so important. Andie introduces us to Esther Perel's three hidden dimensions of conflict that arise when relationships are in need of repair: power and control, care and closeness, and respect and recognition.

She shares with us what the warning signs look like in each area, and offers incredible suggestions to help parents restore and repair the relationship so their adult child can finally begin to move forward. 

Please share this episode with another parent who needs to hear it and remember to hit the follow button so you never miss one. 

As always, thank you for listening.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The basis of, you know, the human experience, what we all need in life is connection. So we do that through attuning to people, through really getting to like sit in that with them, experience it, understand it. You'll know if you're not attuned to someone because you'll feel the distance between you. You'll feel the coldness, you'll feel that disconnect. And I don't really know what's going on with them. And I think, I think they don't really want to share with me what's going on with them either.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch, a podcast for parents with older kids in their 20s and 30s who are struggling. If you're here, it's because you want to connect with your adult child, understand why they seem uninterested or unwilling to become independent, and ultimately to help them find their way where you're in the right place. Listening to Launch each week will give you valuable insights, expert advice, and practical strategies that you can start using right away. Remember to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. And please share this with another parent who might need this guidance. My guest today is Andy Todorowitz, a registered psychotherapist who specializes in relationship issues, attachment styles, and emotional well-being. Andy helps individuals of all ages develop greater self-awareness and build deeper, more meaningful connections. Today's discussion is an important one. We're talking about repairing relationships. So many parents struggle with this because they don't even realize how or when those issues started, since their adult children keep so much to themselves. Yet understanding the hidden reasons beneath these conflicts and learning how to communicate can open the door to healing and growth, which is exactly what your adult child needs to move forward. I know that by the end of this episode, you'll have a much clearer picture of how you can begin to repair your relationship with your son or daughter. So let's get started. Andy, welcome to launch. Hi, it's nice to be back. It's nice to have you back. I'm actually looking forward to today's conversation. It's going to be a little different than the last one we had together. This is not your first time on, so I'm excited for that. Before we begin our conversation about the parent-child relationship, can you tell us what motivated you to become a psychotherapist?

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Of course. Yeah, it's a great question to start us off today. I want to say that the thing that motivated me to become a therapist was probably going to therapy myself. And so I think the first time I went was when I was 14 years old. My parents were going through a separation and eventually divorced. And so it became really challenging for me to navigate the feelings that were coming up, had to balance the two relationships that were, you know, seemingly together and then falling apart. And there was definitely a bit of triangulation there. I think I was a mediator, a sounding board, um, a support for both of them in different ways. And that's a lot for a 14-year-old.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Can you explain for the listener what you mean by triangulation?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, I think um triangulation is when we see, particularly in child and parent relationships, um, when a child becomes almost a source of either support or mediation for the parents. So the the child actually becomes unhealthily involved in the parental relationship. And that's what we call triangulation because the child is kind of thrown into this dynamic where two parents should be able to resolve conflict by themselves, but they actually bring their child in as a way to either make it easier to win an argument to resolve something because they're not able to alone. So obviously, hearing them talk about each other, all the feelings they were feeling. I think I was taking that on myself and then also going through my own changes. Like my life completely shifted from sharing a home with both my parents and having a sense of normalcy and structure and routine to that completely being thrown out the window. Going to therapy was super helpful. And then years later, when I was in university, I went back to therapy to resolve um a conflict that was happening in the relationship with my mom. So again, both times I went to therapy was primarily to resolve um relationships with my parents and how they were making me feel. Yeah. And I'd I'd love to share a little bit more about what that looked like for me, if that would be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Please do. I was going to ask, but I was questioning whether it would be too invasive a question. But you're we we would love to hear more about it.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

During their divorce, I spent a lot of time alone in my room. Either I was out with my friends or I was wanting to have the door closed and just be left alone. I think that was my way of feeling a sense of control and autonomy in, you know, a time in my life when that was completely taken away from me because of circumstances outside of my control. And so looking back, I think I feel really sad that I had to go through that. But using therapy, having therapy was such a wonderful support for me. I had this person who listened to me, who validated me, who was just there to kind of support me through this really hard time in my life and very confusing as well. And I think that's what made me want to become a therapist is I love hearing people's stories. I love being able to help and support, you know, individuals through what they're going through. And so being able to provide that to other people brings me so much fulfillment. And it's also healing in a lot of ways. I think a lot of the time healers, and maybe you can, you know, um resonate with this too, end up feeling like they've been healed as well through the work that they do. And so it's a huge driver for me in terms of therapy. Second time that I went to therapy was again when I was in university, I was probably in my early 20s, and my mom was getting remarried at the time. And for me, although she had been with her partner for many years, I think the shock of her getting remarried felt like an abandonment or a betrayal of sorts, even though it wasn't, but it was so jarring. I was feeling like I might lose my mom, you know, the life again that we had kind of gotten used to and rebuilt together, like that was all going to change because she wasn't living with her partner full-time for many years. So going to therapy again gave me that space to really talk things through, um, to be able to express myself to her and to feel like I was, you know, again, like able to feel supported through a huge transition in my life. So huge driver for me wanting to kind of give that back to people and has definitely shaped who I am as a therapist as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

I love that. I love that. I feel like it's giving per like parents permission to put their kids into therapy because at the end of the day, you can you can only parent them, but you can't be their therapist. And so I love the fact that you went outside of that circle, your parents' circle, and found an objective person, someone who can help you see things clearly and be your support system. And I think that's really important. And I'm glad that you shared that story. So thank you. Absolutely. Um so in your work now, what do you find are the common themes around relationship conflicts, especially if we can focus on the parent and adult child?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Specifically with my clients, the themes that I see come up a lot in their relationships with their parents or with their adult children is around communication, expectations, judgment, feeling seen, feeling understood, having a sense of autonomy versus feeling, you know, controlled. A huge one that comes up for sure is judgment. And I think this is one of the most harmful things we can do. And I'm speaking to parents here for their adult children. Of course, we can have differences of opinions, we can give advice to people, but I think it's the way we say things that has a huge impact. You know, if you come at someone very harshly when they're sharing something with you and being vulnerable or trying to open up, you're going to shut them down and they're not going to come back to you. You're not going to be a safe person that they can turn to. And so I do want to caution against the way we communicate, um, specifically when it comes to judgment, criticism, expectations.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah, I love that. I love that you touched on expectations as well, because we've talked about that uh in other episodes where uh expectations lead to disappointments, disappointments lead to feelings of shame for the young adult. And the parents don't even realize it. It's so subtle. Even judgments are so subtle. Okay, so let me ask you: is there some framework that you uh like to work with uh when you're dealing with relationship conflicts? Again, in in the vein of parent, adult child? Is there some something that your your go-to modality that you like to use?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, I love Esther Perell's work. She talks a lot about relationships and um her framework around conflict themes, particularly, is super helpful in terms of understanding what's underneath the conflicts that tend to be recurring in relationships between you know parents and children. So she talks about care and closeness, respect and recognition, and power and control as the three main themes that we see come up in conflict.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Got it. Okay, so let's talk about care and closeness first, because what I often hear is that young adults don't feel close to one or both of their parents, not in the way that makes them feel safe and comfortable enough to open up. So can you tell us what care and closeness look like in a healthy relationship?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Care and closeness, it really is the foundation of every relationship, and specifically between a parent and a child. I think from a child's perspective, you always want your parent to feel like they truly care about you and are close to you. I think that's what you know forms a really secure attachment and relationship. So huge, huge theme here I want to highlight in terms of how to show care and closeness. I think three main ways we can do this is through active listening, showing interest, and validating feelings. So active listening is not listening with the intention of responding, it's actually the exact opposite. It's listening without the need to respond, react, or you know, share your own opinion. We just listen. We just listen to understand, listen to ask questions, listen to be curious. And with that, um, the validation piece comes really close. We can validate someone's experience by saying, I understand why you feel this way. I can understand why those emotions are coming up for you without necessarily agreeing with them. And that's something that comes up as a therapist, right? I don't always agree with what my client says. I wouldn't do it myself, but I can absolutely validate and empathize with their experience because I take the time to understand it. And so I think parents and children, you know, can use that and hopefully like enhance their own communication with each other through that. And then the last one, showing interest in something that someone loves or is passionate about or has, you know, shown an interest in just a hobby, it's huge. It's the best way to really form a connection with someone and open up the dialogue to other maybe more vulnerable topics or more uncomfortable topics. I mean, we have to start somewhere. So why not start where someone shows interest in something or finds value in something?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

It's a beautiful answer. And I love the fact that you went into the suggestion. But for the parent who doesn't know whether or not closeness and care, like care and closeness is an issue, what would the signs be for a parent when an adult child does not feel close?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

I would say the main signs would be a sense of disconnection, distance, very surface level conversations or very short responses. And I might even just encourage you, you know, if you're not sure what would make your adult child feel close to you or feel like you care for them, you can ask. I feel like sometimes we just need to know that it's okay to ask someone what they need from us in order to feel that care and closeness because we can make these suggestions and we hope that they're universal to some degree, but they might not be. And it's okay to just, you know, ask someone, what do you need from me to feel this way?

unknown 12:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

I think that's also a great conversation to have.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

And also, you know, one thing that we always say at this stage in life, as when you're dealing with an adult, is don't just offer advice. Ask them, what do you need from me? Do you need me to just listen? Or would you like me to give you my opinion on something? And when you ask that question, it just the the floodgates open up because then the the adult can say, Yeah, I just want you to listen. And it's so freeing, actually, um, to not have to have the right answer, to just be able to nod, even I say to parents, if you don't know what to say, paraphrase. And do you want to tell the listener what paraphrasing is?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Sure, it's just wrapping up what they shared with a nice little bow. You know, it's it's just it's not a summary, it's not parroting back to them what they said, but it's almost, you know, just shortening it and making sure they know you understood what they said.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Right. I actually say it's it, but you could actually almost repeat because you sometimes it's just easier when you say for so what I understand or what I hear you saying is and you almost repeat what they're saying. Well, that's almost just that's to make it really easy. And then after a while you get really good at it, and then you can do what you said, wrap it up in a bow. Yeah. Okay. Start somewhere. Okay, care and closeness. Now, from what I understand about her work, there's also something they that she works with that's called attunement. So, can we talk about the difference between paying attention during this just you know, care and closeness versus the concept of attunement? What is that?

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Attunement is, I think, one of the most beautiful things that can happen in any relationship. And I'll keep it again specific to the parent child. Attuning is really being under able to understand someone's emotional experience. It's being able to sit in their feelings with them to really understand what they're going through. You know, when we attune to someone, we can almost mirror them. It's we actually activate like neuroneurons in our brain. So we're almost with them in their experience, and they can feel that. They can feel that you're there with them and you're not there to judge, you're not disconnected, you're not dismissing, you're just there. You're so tuned in to their experience and their emotions. And that's really, I think, the easiest way to think of attunement.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

What does the absence of attunement look like? And how can that make an adult child feel more alone if there is no attunement?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

I think the absence of attunement is disconnection. The basis of you know, the human experience, what we all need in life is connection. So we do that through attuning to people, through really getting to like sit in that with them, experience it, understand it. You'll know if you're not attuned to someone because you'll feel the distance between you. You'll feel the coldness, you'll feel that disconnect, and I don't really know what's going on with them. And I think, I think they don't really want to share with me what's going on with them either. And so I think when you notice someone being vulnerable with you, and that could be your child in this case, really taking the time to attune in those moments, it will it will get you so much further in building that relationship with them.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

I love that. It's almost like you you jump, you use the keyword connection, but it's it's almost connection through compassion.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Yes, compassion and empathy, because sometimes compassion is hard.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Right. I love these. I love all these words coming in. Okay, so let's talk about power and control. What does that look like in the parent-adult-child relationship? Let's begin with when an adult child feels controlled by their parent, because this is a big one. What does that look like? What would what would the signs be to a parent?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

I think the main signs that we'll see when an adult child is feeling controlled by their parent is resistance, withdrawal, defiance, and passive noncompliance. Um, so for example, resistance will be like pushing you away, resisting the suggestions or things that you tell them to do, um, withdrawing, you know, being in their room alone, isolating, not wanting to spend time with you, um, defying what you ask of them, whether it's as simple as like household chores or you know, bigger things in life, like asking them to get a job or to move out or to socialize, whatever it might be, they're defying because they feel such a lack of control that that is their way of regaining control.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

This is what happens every day in parents that I speak to. They don't understand why their adult won't listen to them. So can you elaborate a little bit more on the passive noncompliance aspect? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

It basically is when um a child is not complying with something you said, so they're actively going against something that you've asked of them or told them as an expectation or something that they're supposed to do, but it's passive rather than aggressive. So it's more silent. So this might be ignoring, you know, forgetting in some senses, just blatantly not doing something that you asked. Um, so again, a form of resistance, I'd say, and also just trying to feel a sense of control and autonomy. And so that's that's how it shows up.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Mm-hmm. It's funny, a lot of parents would say they're lazy, but I think that lazy is actually a could be a sign of that passive non-compliance. They're not lazy, they just don't want to do it because you asked them to and they don't feel the sense of control.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Laziness is the number one thing that I've actually heard from my clients that they're called, but it's rarely ever that they're actually lazy to do something. There's so much underneath that. I would actually caution parents against using or calling their children lazy because again, it's a judgment. We're pushing them away. It paints this picture for your child that the way you perceive them, and it's not gonna be um something that brings you closer together. So I'd I'd actually be curious about the so-called laziness and what's up with that.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

They're not lazy. They're when when they want to do something, they do something. That's not a lazy person. Yeah, that's a person that's there's other things going on, like you said. Before we leave this this section of of uh power and control, I just I just want to say that I know a lot of parents don't feel as if they're being controlling. So that's the interesting part. They don't they don't feel the control part. On the other hand, they actually feel powerless. So it's kind of interesting. So what might have happened to their sense of authority, power, or control? How did they lose it? Before we talk about how they can get it back.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

I think when you say that, the first thing that comes to mind is connection before correction. I think oftentimes the relationship has been lost, which leads to the sense of authority being lost. And I do want to say, I think having control over your child is not a great goal to have because we should never want to control or have authority over someone. I think a more healthy way to look at that is being a great role model or having a sense of influence over them. But um, in terms of how do you lose that, you probably lost the relationship first.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Got it. Okay, what suggestions can you offer parents to help their young adults feel more empowered and possibly we can say in control because we do we do want our own feeling of being in control, not to control others, but to feel a sense of control. What suggestions can they do to restore that balance for their adult children?

SPEAKER_00 20:39

The first suggestion I can offer is shifting from directing to offering, exactly like this. Instead of telling what you know, the parents here what they should do, I'm offering a suggestion. And I think sometimes it's as simple as using specific language when we talk to someone. You can tell someone what to do, or you can strongly suggest or um encourage them to do something, and just that simple phrasing shift I think helps a lot. So, for example, you know, offering um suggestions or options instead of telling them you need to do this or you need to do that or else, you know, blank I think would be really helpful. Um, the next one is giving choices whenever possible. Again, we're talking about young adults, and adults are allowed to make their own decisions, they're allowed to choose and have a sense of autonomy, agency, independence, and control over their own lives. And I think this is a really important characteristic to actually teach. And so, with that, they get to learn how to make choices and what maybe the consequences of a bad choice would be or a not so great choice would be, um, how to, you know, pick themselves up when they've made a choice that isn't aligning with their goals. I think it's a great opportunity to grow as an individual when we get to. Have choices and have the power to choose what feels good for us.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

You know, you say you talk about giving choices. I want to tell you that when my kids were little, I knew that I had to, I could because I was obviously a very strong per like mother, but at the same time, I wanted them to feel a sense of autonomy, con power over their own little lives. And I wanted them to learn that there's always options, there's always choices. So everything was a choice. Everything. And everything was a choice. Do you want to see this friend or do you want to instead come hang out with me? And I just I loved, I would watch the look on their faces, knowing that, like, you mean you're letting me decide? And I'd be like, yeah, but between those two options. So in a way, it was contained, but at the same time, it made them, I could see how they were lit up when they knew that they were getting to decide that day or that moment what was their next move. So I love that. I think that's a fantastic way of empowering somebody.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

I was just thinking of that word. I think it is the most beautiful thing you can do is offer someone the ability to choose something for themselves. It really, I think, builds their sense of confidence, their self-esteem, their problem-solving skills. Um and it also teaches responsibility in in some ways. So I'm definitely a big advocate for that.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

So you mentioned earlier um it's not about trying to control, um, it's more about influence, which I think is it might seem like what's the difference, but it's so powerful, the difference between control and influence. And I think that it leads us to the net the third uh conflict issue, which is respect and recognition. Because I think we would both agree when you have influence, that is that leads to respect. But I don't want to get too far ahead. I want you to elaborate on what respect and recognition looks like in a healthy relationship.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

If you think about the people that you um are influenced by, you probably have some level of respect for them. Um, and so they all kind of tie into each other in some way. Respect and recognition is, I think, truly about being seen, valued, and taken seriously as a human being, right? I think most people just want to feel heard and like they matter. And so offering that to someone in a day-to-day conversation, in you know, giving them decisions, in showing that you care and attuning to them, like all these kind of tie together. But that is a huge way to show that you respect and recognize someone's efforts and who they are.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

You know, it's interesting because we're talking about relationship dynamics here. And then the point of all this is to repair the relationship. And even though our focus is on the parent and adult child, it's mutual because a lot of times I a lot of parents will feel so disrespected by their adults, um, and and then the adult child doesn't feel recognized or seen. So it's almost like this dance of where there's lacking of respect, there's lacking of recognition. One feels unseen, the other feels unappreciated. So, what does this look like for a parent? How can they recognize when their adult child feels uh unrecognized or disrespected? What are the signs that are going to come up for them?

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Again, I think a huge one is you will notice that disconnection. So this will show up as anger, frustration, dismissiveness, a lack of engagement, um, irritation, contempt, pulling away. I think I'm thinking of one of my clients in particular who feels as though the choices they have made in their life weren't respected by their parents, and therefore they want nothing to do with them. They pull away, they they stay in their rooms with the door closed, they don't want to engage, they don't even want to repair the relationship at this point because they feel like there's been so many years of being unseen, um, disrespected, not recognized for the effort that they're putting in. So I think you'll know because because you really will feel like your your giant your child is just not present with you and they just don't care to have a relationship with you. I think like anyone would if we were feeling disrespected. And I think I want to also highlight here the importance of showing that you trust someone to make good decisions for themselves is also another way we can show that we respect someone. Like I trust you to make great choices is a great way to say, I also I respect you and I respect the decisions you make. And so I think showing that would be would be a great step as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

I love that. You kind of just went into my next questions. With what are the suggestions that we can offer parents to help their young adult? And I I think you just nailed it. I don't know if there's more to that other than just showing that you trust them. But could you think of a few other suggestions that could help repair the respect and recognition aspect?

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Absolutely. Yeah, and I think I'm just getting excited, so I'm jumping ahead here. Um I think again, acknowledging someone's perspectives or wants and desires in life, even when they're different from yours. And again, remembering here, validating and understanding does not mean you agree, but they don't have to exist in the same conversation. Um recognizing someone's effort, not just the outcome or maybe their failures or what's gone wrong or how they could have done it better if they had only XYZ. It's really just recognizing that someone tried and it doesn't always go the way that we want when we tried and also acknowledging that your adult child might not be feeling the best if something didn't go the way that they intended. And you don't need to add to that, you know, feeling that they're they're probably experiencing. Um, I think even as I'm sharing that, what's coming up for me is how debilitating shame is. And I don't think we recognize it's also almost invisible sometimes. So we don't always see the shame and embarrassment and sense of failure that people feel when they try something and don't succeed. And there's no need to add to that because I can assure you they're probably feeling it to some degree on their own. And I think I think a really great one is just speaking to them as an equal or as an adult, because truly we're talking about adult children here, and they're adults. So I think it's okay to start to transform the relationship into one that I would describe as more equitable and equal rather than one where I have to be the parent, I have to be bigger, I have to be stronger, I have to have control. We don't need that anymore. They're grown up, and I think they want someone who that they can turn to and feels like is going to be there, not someone who feels like they're better than them or knows better than them, because ultimately that's not how we're going to form a good relationship with anyone.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah, agreed. And also I think that it's so much easier for a parent to just be a role model. So it's not like dictating, using you know, instructions and saying the things that are making them feel small. Just you do you. You be the person that you know your adult child can look up to and then lead by example at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

So I want to share, I think my brother and I have both taken to my mom as an incredible role model. She has never made us feel bad about not doing something, about trying and getting it wrong. She's only ever encouraged us to keep going, to keep following our dreams, to, you know, reflect on maybe what what we didn't like about an experience and how we'd want to change that. And she was an incredible role model for hard work, um, discipline, getting shit done. And I think she never tried to force that on us, truly. There was always, you know, I think goals that we all discussed together independently and with her, but it was never like you need to do this, um, or or else it will change how I see you.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Right. Andy, I always like to leave on a positive note. And every time I asked you about a different um aspect of Esther Pearl's conflict resolution issues, you provided suggestions, which was so great and so important. But is there any advice that you can share today for parents to begin to do the work on repairing the relationship?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

I think the best advice that I can offer today is that there is hope to repair the relationship between you and your adult child. Um, I certainly have had ups and downs with my parents, and we've had to repair multiple times on multiple occasions. And so I want this episode to be the hope that you can change the relationship between you and your adult child with that care and closeness, with that power and control, with that um respect and recognition, and really transform what you are experiencing now to something that is beautiful and fulfilling and meaningful for both people involved. And I I think that is how I'll leave it here today.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Oh, I just got the shivers. I love it. I think it is one of the most beautiful relationships parents can have with their adult children. So I focus on it a lot. It's part of my course, it's something that I talk to every client about. It's not the child that's broken, it's the relationship that needs repair. Thank you, Andy, for coming back to launch. I love talking to you. And please come back anytime. You are always welcome here.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Thank you so much for having me. It was good getting to chat with you today.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood. If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues. And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you. It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most. Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential question. And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult. Talk to you soon.